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BJA: According to recent reports, the
BBC broadcast on Pedigree Dogs has resulted in damage to the Kennel
Club, the sport of purebred dogs, and to individual breeders who strive
to produce healthy dogs that fit the breed standards. The program
suggested the TKC was involved.
MPC: This is absolutely untrue, the Kennel Club did not sponsor this
program. As it turned out the program was so one sided that even the
Pet people in this country said “You know I saw that program on the BBC
and wasn’t it one sided ?” Remember these were not people who are in the
breeds, they are people that just sit at home and love their pets.
BJ. As what we in America would call a “Board Member” of The Kennel Club
(England), what can you tell us about that health research study? I
understand the Kennel Club has been working for years to develop health
testing programs, identify genetic problems and
eradicate them from the quality purebred dog..
MPC: The Kennel Club have been working for
over ten years trying to assist
breeders in developing health testing and screening within breeds to
help breeders identify genetic problems and eradicate them. The kennel Club Charitable Trust has given more than £2
million UK pounds in health related grants .Much of this money has been
used to help develop new health tests for inherited diseases, directly
benefitting pedigree dogs.
The health research study itself, The Charitable Trust is set up and
administered by the Kennel Club, and as you can see, donates heavily
into research on inherited diseases in the dogs.
To be honest with you, it is not to produce a superior quality of dogs,
it is to breed dogs that are fit and able to lead a normal healthy life.
The progress that has been made on health has been amazing. For example,
they have or did have a condition in Irish Setters and Irish Red and
White Setters called “CLAD” and this condition was eliminated through
mandatory health testing. There was a lot of research funded by money
put in by the breed clubs and also The Kennel Club Charitable Trust.
That’s only one of many as an example. There’s still a great deal of
work being done by The Kennel Club for breeders and we are working
together to eradicate a lot of the health problems.
BJA: Do you have, what we in the states call puppy-mills or backyard
breeders who breed more for the income than the betterment of their
respective breed?
MPC: Yes, yes, yes! To be honest with you I think that these people are
mainly the ones causing us the problems. The majority of the breeders,
in this country, care deeply about the health of their dogs. OK, we will
always have a few breeders who don’t want to comply. That’s the law of
averages and human nature. However, we have puppy mills, backyard
breeders, call them what you like, who never health test their animals
and they breed enormous quantities and quite frankly, I wish that the
societies that are criticizing the Kennel Club and the dog breeders in
whole, would investigate some of these.
BJA: The same is true here. Why don’t they turn the attention where it
belongs?
MPC: Absolutely! I agree entirely.
BJA: Well then, is it fair to say The Kennel Club has a steeper hill to
climb in educating those breeders and helping them to eliminate
hereditary problems?
MPC: Right, well what we have here, and you and I have talked about this
before, is the Accredited Breeders. This scheme was criticized in the
beginning, there were lots of teething problems, however this is a
scheme which I personally belong to and to become an Accredited Breeder,
you must guarantee that you will health screen your stock for any
inherited conditions that are within your breed. Now some people just
won’t join, like your puppy backyard breeders. However, this scheme is
now improving all the time and there are now three thousand two hundred
breeders on Accredited Breeder Scheme.
It has been going only a couple of years so this is a good program and
well received. However, what everybody is trying to do is educate people
to buy their puppies from stock that had been appropriately tested for
their breed. In doing this, hopefully it will guide prospective owners
from the backyard breeder and the puppy mill and put them onto people
who care about the animals and care about the health. It’s not so much
the look of the animal that people are complaining about, except
obviously some are over exaggerated; it’s the actual health situation.
BJA: Well 3,200 Accredited Breeders is a lot for such a small country!
MPC: Absolutely! And since the program, you can imagine there have been
more people wanting to join the Accredited Breeders scheme. Breeders are
up in arms, because they hate what is going on. It’s hurting everybody
involved in Pedigree dogs.
BJA: Basically The Kennel Club is the only registry? Are there competing
registries in England?
MPC: Not really. There was an alternative several years back it, may
well still be in existence. However, people in this country do not want
that. You see I believe in your country, your breed clubs own the
standards, here it is different The Kennel Club owns the standards, not
the breed clubs. Now that is the difference. So therefore, they are
responsible for those standards. If somebody goes off and registers with
some other registration society, they couldn’t then come back and
register that dog with The Kennel Club, that is to say, a dog which is
already being registered with an unrecognized society or registration.
BJA: What about the natural human desire to win which in itself leads
breeders to exaggerate breed features, such as flat faces or eye shape
and size that could lead to physical impairment?
MPC: Well, I’m probably going to say something now that I shall get shot
for…. And I can tell you that the Pekinese people have all been
complaining. They came in to a meeting at the Kennel Club, they knew
they had to do something four years ago and they have NOT done anything
at all. The problem is that they couldn’t even agree with themselves let
alone agree and join together. And now they have got to do something and
everybody is complaining about it but they had the opportunity to do
something for their breed and themselves.
The problem is that we as breeders, we all breed for whatever we think
is the correct thing to breed for. So you have people, just as you say,
who want to win. Now yes, it is good to win and I want to win and so do
other people, but unfortunately some people overlook the health
considerations so that they can breed something that will win in the
show ring. Now the judges over here are being educated so that if there
is a problem with the breed that they are judging as regards the health,
they are not veterinary surgeons, but if there is something obvious,
like the dog is lame or it has got something with the eyes, or if there
is anything which they can see upon examination that they feel may be
detrimental to the health of the animal, then they have been advised not
to put these dogs up for awards.
BJA: Well that also answers my next question – whether it is true that
The Kennel Club is instructing judges as regards awards.
MPC: Then the answer is yes, that the Kennel Club is instructing judges
not to award dogs that exhibit features that could be detrimental to
canine health. That’s absolutely true.
BJA: The conflict here as an example would be the Pekinese standard, so…
MPC: Well, that’s the same here but they were given the opportunity to
do something about it and now they are all shouting and saying, The
Kennel Club has done this and not done that. However we gave them that
opportunity four years ago when they came into a meeting as I mentioned
earlier, it is only in the past weeks that the majority of the Pekinese
breeders have started to talk to each other and have now reluctantly
accepted their new standard.
I don’t know if you were aware, but there was a movement by Europe,
somebody put together a format of breeds which they felt should not be
bred at all or that needed immediate attention. That came out about 5
years ago, maybe even longer, I’m not sure because I’m not good on time,
but there was a sub-committee formed at the Kennel Club of which I am a
part, wherein we were asked to look at this list of breeds we were
given, breeds that they felt in Europe were having problems with health.
Some of the breeds, I have to say I personally, didn’t agree with.
However, this was something which the government could well sign up to
and so we explained this to the breeds concerned and had them come in to
The Kennel Club to discuss it. We explained to them, your breed is in
trouble. We don’t think they really realized how much trouble they were
in because if the UK government had signed up to this, then they were
going to be in very deep trouble. So we in actual fact, had started to
change standards on breeds that were at risk.
This is long before this BBC program ever came out. And you know some of
the breeds that we’ve helped, we thought were really, really going to be
difficult breeds to deal with but in actual fact, they have turned out
to be excellent. Particularly the Bulldog people. They have been really
good. They have tried so hard to improve on their breed.
And then you have others that really think in fact it was something
which more or less, well, I can say it, actually it was printed in one
of the newsletters and it said words to the effect, “OK, well tell them
what they want to hear and then they’ll go away, they won’t come back
again.” That is not somebody who cares about their breed! They’re just
hoping that the Animal Rights people or The Kennel Club or whoever, will
go away and leave them alone and they can continue on exactly as before. |
BJA: I understand. That has been true
here as well. Tell us about Hip Scores and how it relates to breed
improvements.
 MPC: Hip scores! We have had hips being scored for many years now since
I was a kid. So it’s been going on a long, long time. I am happy to say,
the hip situation in a lot of breeds has improved tremendously!
I’m
talking now not just as a breeder but as somebody who owns a boarding
kennel where we have all the breeds come in to board.
(editor’s note:
Meg owned one of the finest quarantine facilities in England, now turned
into general boarding when quarantine was lifted in the U.K.)
The thing is, we see far less now than we’ve ever seen. Certainly if you
are joined in the Accredited Breeder Scheme, and your breed is one of
the breeds that needs to be x-rayed, then you have to do it. I would say
though, the hip dysplasia scheme has been extremely successful even
before The Kennel Club instituted the Accredited Breeder Scheme.
I’m not talking as a vet when I say that but I think the vets would say
that as well. I mean we’ve now got mean scores for the various breeds.
What they do is take the average of the breed and, without going to look
it up, let’s say for example the Akita is 14-15 average score. Well some
of the breeds that in the past have been 25 or 30 average have now come
down to an average of say, a 15 to 18.
BJA: Well that’s a quite definitive grading. Not only for the individual
dog but as you just pointed out, your system is much easier to track
over the years as regards improvement within individual breeds. Here we
don’t get that, we get Good, Fair, Excellent, whatever.
MPC: Well we get ours scored and you have a score from 1 – 126 and
obviously the lower the score the better. They then set an acceptable
score for that breed based on the numbers and however many are done. And
it seems to work because there’s more and more being done. People want
to comply, and the other thing is of course, if somebody comes and buys
a dog from me and I haven’t had their parents x-rayed and so if their
dog then gets hip dysplasia, they can come back and sue me because I
haven’t taken proper precautions.
This is nothing to do with Kennel Club, nothing to do with breed clubs.
In this country we have something which is called Trading Standards, and
if I breed from two dogs that haven’t been x-rayed or let’s say the
breed has eye problems, and I haven’t had their eyes done and the puppy
develops that condition and I can’t prove that I’ve x-rayed or certified
the parents, I’m in deep trouble.
BJA: I’m sure that will come here too. It is already being back by the
Animal Rights Movement so I see many Legislative changes and legal
challenges in the near future.
Also, our readers are curious, will the accredited breeder scheme remain
voluntary or will it become mandatory in order to breed and sell puppies
in the U.K.?
MPC: That is not the plan, provided people do their health screening and
such like, they’re not going to be made to be an Accredited Breeder, but
I think what will happen in the future is even if they don’t become an
Accredited Breeder, I think that they are going to have to comply with
laws and regulations on health and welfare.
BJA: Yes, same here. Now tell me… if I dare ask given the rift between
The Kennel Club and the Royal Society Of Prevention of Cruelty To
Animals, how do you feel about the RSPCA?
MPC: I don’t think I better tell you because you might print
it…(laughing) I know how I feel personally; I feel it would be rather
nice if they put their own house in order before they go out and
criticize anybody else. You know, I had somebody say to me, I don’t know
that this is 100% true but I do believe it is, that he was asked (he
being an architect) whether he would do the design for the new R.S.P.C.A.
headquarters? And when he found out it was going to cost $5 million he
refused to do it. My feeling is, if that is true, the money should be
going to saving dogs and all other pets and not to be having such
palatial headquarters.
BJA: Absolutely. So for Americans, the RSPCA would be the “forefather”
of our Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To Animals (SPCA) which are
individually operated here, meaning a person or group can start a
“branch” under that name. But more worrisome to all dog owners in the
U.S. and especially to breeders, is the Humane Society Of The U.S. or
HSUS. It is seen as a primary Animal Rights organization which in fact,
is often depicted in type as H$U$ due to a reputation for being more
about the money than about the humane treatment of animals. It takes in
an estimated $200 million dollars per year in donations and is said to
be heavily invested in the political structure.
MPC: Well I don’t know about that but certainly, the R.S.P.C.A. is a
body that had been established for many, many years and yes you’ll find
some people that say, ‘Oh yes they’re wonderful’ and then you have a lot
of people that do not have any time for them whatsoever.
BJA: Yes, it’s the same here. We’ll talk more about that situation later
but getting back to breed problems, the most popular breeds in this
country are those which are fairly natural, not tremendously
exaggerated, so do you find that to be true over there? Is the pedigreed
dog, the breeds which really don’t have that many structural or genetic
problems, are they the more popular breeds in England?
MPC: Not necessarily I would say. You see, I think the other thing is,
some of these Breed Standards haven’t been altered for goodness knows
how many years. Some of the things that are said in the standards, I
think encourages exaggeration if you know what I mean. For instance, if
you have a large dog and the standard says something like “massive bone”
well, that encourages breeders to breed bigger, bigger, bigger. Whereas,
if you put large bone or strong bone, you know what you’re looking for
but it’s not excessive. You see what I mean? What breed are you thinking
of in particular?
BJA: Well I was just thinking about what you said earlier, that there
are some breeds that wouldn’t need dramatic changes to their standard,
just minor adjustments to the language itself.
MPC: Of course, you’re absolutely right, there are a lot of breeds like
that. Now I’m not saying they don’t need health screening, because if
they are health screened and kept up to date, the breed can remain
healthy. But let’s say a breed may be predisposed to something like
hips, well, wait, let’s take the Labradors, they are a very popular
breed over here, very sound, but yet you do see problems in hips. Many
people are breeding them, and there are a lot because Labradors are so
very poplar, not just as pets but also in the show ring. Now that dog as
described in the standard has nothing which is exaggerated. So it’s just
monitoring the health screening that needs to be done.
BJA: What about Designer Dogs. Do you have much of a problem in your
country? Here, if you go online and type in Designer Dogs you get almost
a half million returns for websites selling them.
MPC: We don’t have Designer Dogs with the Kennel Club. They’re not
registered with the Kennel Club but dogs can be registered as cross-breds
for the purpose of competing in Obedience and Agility, much as I think
is the case with the AKC and for the same purpose.
BJA: Well of course, but are people breeding them?
MPC: Yes, they’re all doing the odd ones. There again, take the Lab-ra-doodle,
they are at absolutely enormous prices. It’s just because it’s a
“Designer dog” that people like. They are fetching three to four times
more than people are getting for dogs which they’ve screened, done the
health testing for and are so carefully bred. But mind you in fairness,
I have to say some of them are actually doing some screening and such
like, but really, the buyer is getting a cross-breed dog and not only
paying a pedigree price but having possibly double the inherited health
problems from the breeds they are crossed with.
BJA: Meaning what?
MPC: Well obviously, in that regard, you stand to get, not just the
faults related to the one breed, but you could double the odds of
problems because you may well get the health defects of both breeds
multiplied into the puppy you buy. And it would be ever so much more
difficult to test for and track health problems in cross-breds which
have no historical database and history of screenings and testing to
which the breeder (or buyer) can refer.
BJA: Well Meg, we could talk for hours but we’ll end this with a promise
to our readers that we will keep in closer touch with the impressive
progress being made by The Kennel Club. We can greatly benefit from the
advancements already made in your country. We’ll talk again after the Holidays.
Thank you for your time and for the work your committee and The Kennel
Club have done to preserve pure breeds while being so forward-thinking
about health defects.
MPC: I trust that better communication such as this will be to the
betterment of all breeds. Since you first came over here, the world has
become smaller indeed. Thank you for the opportunity to speak directly
to your readers there. Yes, we shall “talk” again! |
world
but she is most gratified to serve as Vice Chairperson for The Kennel
Club (of England) Breed Standards Committee. The Kennel Club is the
oldest and most revered dog registry in the world, literally setting
the “standard” for those breeds which originated or were carefully
developed in the British Isles. As the “fancy” for quality purebred
dogs spread throughout the world, wealthy dog lovers obtained the
best terriers, setters, and many of the toy breeds from England, now
known as the United Kingdom. That is largely true even today. Most
Parent Clubs in the U.S. (and other countries) based their Breed
Standards on the Standards from TKC.
